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Transcript
[00:00:00] Remy: Reverend Deberny. Thank you so much for being willing to come on my show and talk to me.
[00:00:09] Rev. Deberny: Oh, it’s a pleasure. Thank you for having me on. I love to, love to talk to fellow Lutherans about our faith, about the church and anything I can do to help.
[00:00:20] Remy: So to get this started, just sort of generally around what we’re going to be talking about. If you could introduce yourself.
How long have you been doing ministry? Where are you at currently? Where’d you graduate from? Tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:00:35] Rev. Deberny: Oh, I love talking about myself.
[00:00:38] Remy: Don’t we all.
[00:00:39] Rev. Deberny: So my story, I like to say in the LCMS I would be what you call a system guy in that I just kind of went through the system. I, I grew up in an LCMS congregation out in Buffalo and Niagara Falls and I knew when I was seven years old I was going to be a pastor.
It’s the divine call. God just calls you and I think that kind of is an example of that. I saw my pastor, he came to visit us. We, it was a school associated with the church and the pastor would visit every day and I saw him like that. That’s, that’s what I want to do. And I’ve had a lot of support, I had a lot of support from family, from friends. This is a vocation that you should pursue. So I went through the system. After high school I went to a Concordia, Concordia Nebraska where I studied conc. Computer science but also the pre seminary program, getting my Greek and Hebrew, all that done, graduated in three years with the Bachelor’s of arts. And then you had to make the choice which seminary you’re going to go to. And fortunately the computer science degree actually turned into a career at Concordia Publishing House. I developed software for a church management called Shepherd Staff. And so the choice of where I would go to seminary became easy because I had a side gig at in St. Louis. So I went to Concordia St. Louis for a Master of Divinity education and for after two years I got my vicarage assignment. And that vicarage assignment was kind of crazy because that was the 2020 year, which if you remember that was during the COVID pandemic. So I actually found out where I was going on vicarage at home, no call Service, over the TV. It was crazy. I was called to Garden City, New York which about, I would say a 30 minute drive east of New York City, Manhattan. And I spent a year there learning about, you know, what it means to be a pastor with the field experience.
It definitely was a fit for me. I didn’t know if I was going to be coming back to New York. But I remember our district president. He was not district president yet, but he came to visit me during vicarage and he gave me the old like, so where do you think you would fit in as a pastor if you were to come back to our district? That kind of talk. Right.
And so after my fourth year we received our call assignments and sure enough I returned to the same district. And now I am a pastor at Grace Lutheran Church in Mastic Beach, New York which is about 60 miles east of the city, so further east on the island. And I am now in my third year. So two years ministry have not scared me off. God be praised for that. He has been with me in my ministry and I thank him every day. I thank him for the support I’ve received. I got called to a wonderful congregation. Grace is a filled with faith filled people and people eager to hear the truth. And they have been receptive of me and taking good care of me and that’s a blessing. I know many pastors that have had a rough time their first call, but that was not my case at all. God has been with me during my journey. A little bit more about me now that I’m in my third year. The district said, oh, we can make that guy do stuff. So in April, in April I was nominated as the junior pastoral counselor of the Atlantic District lwml. So I work with the L. LWML in, in devotion giving and counseling. And I go to a ton, tons of events to help with that. Go ahead.
[00:04:09] Remy: I. I’m in the aalc.
[00:04:10] Rev. Deberny: Yes.
[00:04:11] Remy: And we don’t have the lwml. Yes. I always imagine that it stands for Lutheran Women. Mim Lutheran. What does it actually stand for?
[00:04:21] Rev. Deberny: It is the Lutheran Women in Mission. That or you, or you could say the Lutheran Women Missionary League. They’ve kind of moved to the first name, but the acronym actually stands for lut. Lutheran Women Missionary League. The institution is kind of how I would describe it. It’s a way to create grant money and distribute it to certain ministries throughout the country or within the districts. So. So for example, you know, there may be some fundraising a church needs for a ministry project in the community and they can’t raise that money themselves. And so the LWML all gets together and say, okay, we’re going to do as a district, we’re have these little mite boxes, these little tiny boxes that we put in our churches and you put a dollar in and it all the LWL headquarters and it funds these grants and every year we may have like 20, 25 different missionary grants. And we vote at the meeting which ones get priority. And then we go down the list. It’s kind of a grant funding institution. And of course there’s many other things there. It’s the lwml. Basically the way you should think of it is if you were a lady and the lcms, you are part of the lwml. If you are a woman, you’re part of that. And so we have lots of gatherings together as Christians should gather together, not just in their church, but the church at large. We have, we’re gonna have a upcoming event in October which all the women from up the Hudson Valley and on Long island, that’s the Atlantic district, Hudson Valley down to the city and then out to Long Island. All the churches get together and they meet together and I get to help lead some, some little sermons during that time, some devotions. It’ll be a good time.
So that is what my role was as the LWMO pastoral counselor. Also in year I have also been nominated. Well, I guess appointed would be the better, better word. A circuit visitor. Now, the way the LCMS is structured, we have districts throughout the country. We have a 35. Think about 35 districts in our country or. And then we have. Each district is divided into certain circuits because the idea is we don’t want pastors to be lone wolves by themselves. You know, we want them to have fellowship with other pastors. Pastors need pastors, after all. And so the way to solve this is we divide districts into circuits because a district could be an entire state, right? The eastern district is half of Pens or all, almost all of Pennsylvania and half of New York state. And there might be a hundred plus churches in that area. And it’s hard for pastors to, to get together all in one place. And so they’re divided into circuits maybe of eight churches, 10 churches, even five churches, for the point of them getting together, not only for voting and, and creating resolutions that would go to district, but also for fellowsh.
Circuit is out on Long Island. It’s eight churches that I get the opportunity to, to care for, to love on. And we meet once a month and discuss church big business, but also discuss things happening in our world. And there’s some pretty crazy things happening in our world right now. You know, asking questions like how do, how do we preach about politics?
You know, it’s kind of, it’s kind of cool not having to decide that all on your own, but being able to bounce ideas off of Other pastors. Yeah, that’s pretty cool.
[00:07:41] Remy: Gain the input of other guys. Yes. Like how they’re doing it, what’s working for them.
[00:07:45] Rev. Deberny: Yes. I think that one of the biggest dangers for pastors is again, this lone wolf mentality of I don’t need anyone’s help. I’m just, I’m just going to do my own thing. And when you do your own thing, you kind of lose sight of what the church is supposed to be.
The apostles did not do their own thing. Rather they gather together, they figured out, this is what we believe, this is what we’re going to teach, and we’re going to be consistent on that. And then Paul comes along and says, okay, going to correct some things to make sure that we are all united.
That’s what the church is supposed to be. That’s what Lutherans take pride in so much. It is a doctrinal, at least conservative Lutherans anyway, doctrinal unity. And the way the LCMS is structured is supposed to foster that, that confessional identity. That’s the word I’m looking for. It’s con. We are confessional. We share the same confession. And our circuits help with that for sure.
[00:08:37] Remy: Gotcha. So what are some responsibilities that you would have as a circuit visitor?
[00:08:45] Rev. Deberny: So there are a few things and fortunately I’m only my first year, so some of the big stuff has not come up yet. But for example, first of all, my role is to be sort of a pastor of pastors. So if a pastor needs some sort of counseling or needs to confess of sin to someone, certainly he could go to our district president or he could go higher up. But the point of circuit visitors to kind of be lower on the rung to help with that, to know he’ll. He’ll know me personally because he’s part of my circuit. So to counsel him on things that, you know, people, pastors will call me with certain problems in their congregation that either they just need to talk about, because sometimes people don’t need solutions. They just, they just want to talk and, and hash things out. And I’m there to be kind of a sounding board for them. But some of the bigger stuff is if there is a debate in the congregation and they need someone to be kind of a third party conflict resolution, my name can be called on. Of course, once again, it could go all the way up to district. But our district precedent has 90 churches to take care of. And so it can be hard for him to get to every single situation. So once again, I’m kind of extension of his arm, kind of a middleman, if you want to say that, to help him do his ministry of caring for pastors. And one more thing, a circuit of Israel might often be called on. Again, I’m on a circuit with eight churches and if, you know, in the lcms, another congregation could call a pastor just like, just like that and could be sent somewhere else and that creates a vacancy. And all of a sudden a congregation doesn’t have a pastor to preach on Sunday. And my name can be called on to fill that in. Right. We, you know, I, after my service is over, we come and have a 12 o’clock service at a different church and I can, I can fill in until a replacement is called.
[00:10:37] Remy: So you’re, you’re a younger fellow.
I think I’ve got a good decade on you.
[00:10:48] Rev. Deberny: Yes.
[00:10:51] Remy: I’m sure other pastors in your circuit are older than you, have been in ministry longer than you.
Is that weird? What’s the, what’s the dynamic like when these guys call you for help or for advice or just to listen and you’re thinking, golly, this guy has been doing this as long as I’ve been.
[00:11:11] Rev. Deberny: Alive, you know, so, yeah, so there, there’s a couple, a couple of things. There’s a, there’s one pastor who has been a pastor for less time than I have in my circuit, but it still is double my age. So, you know, he has the life experience, but it really, I found that the age difference has not been much of a problem because we really build like a, a framework of trust with each other. Right. We’re able to be comfortable with each other. I’m friends with these guys and they’re friends with me. And so, you know, we look past the age. I find the older guys oftentimes look to the younger guys for, for guidance, for inspiration because, you know, they’re towards the end of their ministry. They know that the future of the church is, is the younger folk. And so oftentimes they’ll look to see where my head is at and what I’m thinking. And again, my job isn’t always to give answers. Right.
[00:12:08] Remy: Right.
[00:12:09] Rev. Deberny: Yeah. Okay. A guy, a guy who’s been the ministry for 40 years wants to call me up and, and wants my advice on something. Probably not. But a guy who’s been the ministry for 40 years who, 40 years, who’s upset about something in the congre need someone to talk to, that can be my role. Absolutely. And if they ask for my advice, I’ll give them my advice. But sometimes they don’t Sometimes they just, you know, need that pastoral support because it’s really hard for a pastor when you’re not a pastor and you’re just a parishioner. You make friends in the church and you just go and you find people you trust in the church and you find people you can confide in and talk to. But with a pastor, you can’t confide in your flock.
[00:12:46] Remy: That’s right.
[00:12:47] Rev. Deberny: You can’t really be as much as pastors want to be friends with your congregation, you can be friendly with them, you can go to the church potluck even. You might even open a beer with them once in a while. But you can’t confess your deepest, darkest secrets or sins because who knows where that’s going to go. That’s what the pastors are for, fellow brothers, right? To, to care for each other. And that’s my role. I’ve been appointed circuit visitor. And, you know, I think the other pastors are just glad it doesn’t have to be them. They don’t have to do it. I get to do it. So. But that’s a good question. That’s a good question, Remy.
[00:13:22] Remy: It’s interesting this, this, I, this, it’s something I think about a lot that like you can’t be friends with your parishioners, you know, and, and I think it hits, I think it hits a little bit different in the AALC just because we’re so small. You know, we’ve got, we’ve got as many churches nationwide as, you know, you guys would have in like a district. You know, we’re. And so when you’re separated from the nearest AALC pastor by, you know, a four hour plane ride, it’s like, it’s something, you know, the, and the, I don’t know, the need, I guess, for friendship, for fellowship that you’re really, you’re, you shouldn’t get, you know, in your congregation. You’re not going to get there because these people don’t need you to be their buddy. Right? Like your, your congregation, they don’t need a friend, they need a shepherd. They need a pastor.
And that’s what you’re called to do. So I, I do think about that a lot. I think that’s got to be difficult, I guess, I guess friends is up there. But we, one of the things we wanted to talk about were like the needs of pastors.
And I guess fellowship is, is what I’m reaching for here. I guess that’s a, that’s a pretty strong need in, in pastoral ministry for guys in Ministry, it’s just good fellowship, right?
[00:14:53] Rev. Deberny: Absolutely. Again, loneliness is real for pastors.
And a lot of times they won’t tell you that because a lot of times it gets in the way. Just think, if I were just to bear my soul to you right now, it make a lot of listeners uncomfortable. Because I’m a pastor, they’re supposed to look at me as a reflection of Jesus, someone they can trust and rely on and come to me and be like, I need to confess my sins. Will you give me forgiveness by the authority of Jesus? That’s, that’s my role. And so pastors will often just put on a brave face, which is why, once again, it’s so important if we cannot have this fellowship. And again, when I say you can’t be friends with your parishioners, I don’t mean you’re separated from them, you never talk to them, you never, you know, watch the football game with them. You can. It’s just, I describe full friendship as. It’s a, it’s a two way street, right? It goes both ways, 100%. And so there’s a certain degree of.
[00:15:52] Remy: Intimacy that you’re never gonna have.
[00:15:55] Rev. Deberny: Exactly. It’s a perfect word. You know, you don’t have that intimacy with your parishioners. In fact, that might even. You know what, Remy? I’m gonna use that now. Now, I don’t think I’m gonna say you can’t be friends with your congregates, you can’t be intimate with them. And so that’s why it’s so important to be intimate with fellow pastors. In fact, when I was in the seminary, before I left, they, they kept hammering home, you need someone. Find someone in your circuit or maybe even from the seminary that you’re still friends with. Find someone that you can bear your soul to, because it’ll be tough. We’re pastors are still sinners too. And when we have to rely on ourselves, I like to say everyone has holistic health.
And when your mental health suffers, when you’re struggling, maybe you’re angry at someone or you’re anxious or just overwhelmed, your physical health suffers and so does your spiritual health, and the whole thing can fall apart. I have seen the disastrous end of multiple congregations because a pastor simply just relied on himself.
And I think the honesty here is we realize we’re broken people and we can’t do it ourselves. And so looking to Jesus, we look to the people that Jesus has sent to us, our brother pastors.
[00:17:16] Remy: What are some of the other needs that you have Noticed among pastors, your time as a circuit visitor.
[00:17:25] Rev. Deberny: Oh, man. I don’t want to get into too many specifics because again, sure, you know, I want to keep things private, but certainly I think that there are the needs that, that every human being needs. I mean, putting food on the table is one. It is dealing with family drama.
Pastors have that too.
It’s dealing with disappointment and, and broken relationships, whether it would be in the congregation or outside of the congregation. You know, when family members die, when financial troubles come, the things that we all go through in a day to day life, these are things that happen to pastors that they can’t really complain about to you because it’s not our role. Certainly there’s, there is, there’s definitely, it definitely goes deeper than that, but I’m gonna leave it at that for now.
[00:18:17] Remy: Sure, sure.
So you were, you said you were born in New York, in Buffalo, is that right?
[00:18:27] Rev. Deberny: Yes.
[00:18:28] Remy: All right. My brother in law is from Buffalo.
[00:18:30] Rev. Deberny: Okay.
[00:18:33] Remy: That’s it. That’s the only connection I have to Buffalo. There, that’s the only thing I know about it is that my brother in.
[00:18:38] Rev. Deberny: Law’S, you know, it’s. New York is a strange place because when people think of New York, they think of the city. Of course I think of Manhattan. They think of, you know, just hustle and bustle, Buffalo and everything. Everything west of the city, up the Hudson Valley and the rest of the state. And New York’s a big state, is more rural. Not quite rural, but sub rural. We made up that word kind of describe a lot of New York. Buffalo’s not that big a city. It actually has more of like a countryside atmosphere. People are friendly in Buffalo and people work together. We have tons of snow. You probably know that about Buffalo. Snow in the bills. That’s all we got, snow in the Buffalo bills.
But then it was interesting being raised in Buffalo. I went to college in Nebraska, so I got more of that rural kind of, of attitude. And then I went to Long island with snow also. Then I went to Long Island. Let me just, let me talk about a little bit what, you know, what, what people usually think about New York, what the people are like there. Because being a pastor on the east coast and Remy, you kind of know this being from new North Carolina, the people in New York, people have such a negative stereotype, right, that they’re, they’re mean, that they’re impatient and, and I’m not going to say there isn’t some credibility to those claims. What I have found out about the true New Yorkers on Long island and in the city is that if you are one of them, you are in. They will love you to death. If you’re not one of them, they don’t really care about you. Right. I’ve got my problems, you got yours. Let’s just leave it that way. But if you are one of their friends or part of their family, they will throw so much love on you, you can’t even. You’re one of them. Stop. That’s how my congregation has been. They’re a bunch of New Yorkers. And you think, oh, they’re probably rude and impatient. No, they’re some of the most loving people I’ve ever met. They have welcomed me as part of their family. They, they trust in me so much, it’s humbling.
[00:20:40] Remy: I have a, I have a, I have a thought on this, and this is something that I’ve maintained for years and years and years, and that is that New Yorkers, specifically, but I, I know, like, New Yorkers, kind of in the Southern mind. New Yorker is like the, the archetypal Yankee. He’s a guy from New York City. Yes.
In my experience, it’s been. People from New Jersey are the most of the Yankees that I meet. But I, being from the South, I have this idea that Southern people are incredibly nice.
Very, very nice people. They are not at all kind.
They are not kind people at all, but they’re very nice.
Whereas northern people, not very nice, not nice at all, but incredibly kind. Right. Like, you know, not going to give you any time of day, walking past you on the street, not going to say hi, not going to make small talk with you, because I don’t care. But when it comes down to it, like, if you need something from me, I got your back. Right? We’re in this thing together. Whereas in the south, it’s the other way around. I will small talk with you all day long.
[00:21:55] Rev. Deberny: Yeah.
[00:21:56] Remy: But the exact moment you actually need something, I’m going to gossip about that instead of helping you. Right. Like, I don’t know, does that make sense?
That’s the way it is.
[00:22:06] Rev. Deberny: I think you’re dead on. I think most people on the inside aren’t kind because we’re all sinners. Right. I think some people are less honest about it than others. You know, I, I, People gossip wherever I know this hot. Again, as you’re talking about the small talk, right. You know, hey, I’m gonna, I’m gonna be, I’m gonna present a nice, nice front, front to you. That’s, that’s the word. Thank you. New Yorkers don’t do that. They’re just honest with you. I don’t care about you, and then I won’t talk to you. Right. But. But again, as Christians, right, When we build that, the relationship, no matter where you are, they just. They just buy into you and love you. And. And then you really see that honesty shine with the New Yorkers, because I’ve. I. And this is so humbling my congregation. New people come to me and say, pastor, I will follow you wherever you go. Just tell me where we’re going so I know where we’re going, and I’ll follow you. And I’ll be like, we’re supposed to be following Jesus, but I guess I’m following Jesus, so you’re following me. I guess we’re all following Jesus. That’s good. I’m like, that is so honest that I didn’t even know how to handle it. That’s the kind of people the New Yorkers are. And it’s awesome to serve there. And of course, there’s many other different things about New York. I mean, the food is awesome. We’re right by the beach. I mean, and it’s pretty awesome. I will also say my brother goes to school down in North Carolina, and the only time I have unironically been called a Yankee is when I went to a Lutheran church in North Carolina, and they pointed me out during the sermon like, there’s a Yankee here amongst us. I like.
[00:23:39] Remy: Yeah, I love it. I love it. That’s so great.
Yeah, you’re not. So where you’re at, I mean, I know, like, New York’s a big state, but you’re a lot closer to home than you could have been, I guess.
[00:23:53] Rev. Deberny: Well, I am within the state. I’m about eight hours away from home, from Long Island. The big thing is you got to get through New York City. And New York City, unless you’re driving through at like, three in the morning, it is basically a wall of, you know, car traffic death.
From where I am about 60 miles east, most people work in the city. A lot of people work in the city. So they’ll commute maybe an hour and a half, two hours to get to the city. Either they’ll take the train or they’ll drive in. And it can be. It can be real rough. I am literally on an island sometimes, and it feels like I’m trapped. But, you know, again, it’s. It’s that very Italian family atmosphere of, if you’re one of us, you’re in again. Once again, the food is great. And it’s because it’s Italians. They give you a lot of it. My congregation, they just throw food at me. And again, it’s just been.
[00:24:46] Remy: That’s so great.
[00:24:46] Rev. Deberny: Loving. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Every. Every church. Every church has got a nuanced culture to it. Every part of the country. And we can take pride in that. Right. It doesn’t have to be. It doesn’t have to be like, oh, only the real Lutheran churches. Only the real Lutherans are in the Midwest or only the real churches are in Iowa. We can have real Lutherans on the coast, too. They just. Yeah, I’ll talk more about that in a second. But you were saying something, Raymond. Sorry.
[00:25:12] Remy: I mean, but, like, you could have gotten a call, though. You could have gotten a call to, you know, know, New Mexico.
[00:25:17] Rev. Deberny: Yes.
[00:25:18] Remy: You know, like, you’re within the state.
[00:25:21] Rev. Deberny: That’s right. And actually, one of the reasons for that is it used to be during.
[00:25:27] Remy: The call process, Yankees are so hard to deal with. They were like, we need to.
Our own.
[00:25:32] Rev. Deberny: Yeah, kick me out. It used to be in the call process at the seminary that you had no say at all where you’re going to end up. There’s 6,000 congregations in the LCMS, and you just pray. You get a call. Call when you. When you leave. Associate pastor, a soul pastor could be at home. Could it be far away from home? It could. Could be separated from family. Who knows? But nowadays, because, you know, we’re having a little bit of a pastor shortage, we’re needing more and more pastors. And that’s one thing I pray for all the time, that we. That we have more pastors to the church. There’s a little bit more. Say a little. I can say a little bit. When I. When I was in my fourth year, my last year of seminary, the cold director came to me and said, okay, what part of the country do you think you would like to go?
And I actually said east coast, partially because my family is there, but it’s where I was getting to before. One of the reasons I really wanted to come back here is because I see the need, the need for pastors and the need for pastors here on the East Coast, a need for Lutheran pastors to bring the truth. I heard all the time through my time at seminary. You don’t want to go to the coast. It’s Nineveh over there. Right. You got all these pretend Lutherans. They don’t want our doctrine. Just stay in the safe safety of the Midwest, which The irony is now it’s not that so safe in the Midwest either because you know, the world comes for us all.
But I had a different philosophy. I said, so that just means these, the coasts need pastors and any good pastors who want to bring the truth and not compromise on Lutheran doctrine instead of, you know, recycling the same pastors and over, maybe I should be sent there. And so, so that’s what I said to my call director. Send me to a place where I am needed, to a place they will hear the gospel. And I went to this church and I got so little resistance. They wanted to hear the truth. And now two and a half years later, we delight in a Lutheran doctrine. We delight in what we believe. You know, they need a little clarity as we all do. A new pastor, right? It was actually a four year vacancy before I got there. So it had been four years without a pastor.
Fortunately there was a fill in guy. But it’s not quite the same as having a callback pastor.
[00:27:50] Remy: And sure.
[00:27:51] Rev. Deberny: And I, I went and preached and teach Lutheran doctrine, preached and teach the gospel and they were willing to learn and grow, learn and grow with me at the same time. And it’s been a blessed couple years for sure.
[00:28:04] Remy: You wear your clerical out and about?
[00:28:06] Rev. Deberny: It depends. I will almost always wear it when I do church business, so obviously funerals, weddings, if I’m traveling for church business, sometimes I will wear it on visitation. I will always wear it on.
I, I like the shirt and tie when I do Bible studies because I, I would miss, I have all these ties, right. And I want to have a chance to wear them at some point because I’m not, I’m, when I’m a clerical guy, I’m also, I’m not really a colored clerical guy. Like the pink, the red, the green, I’m gonna wear a clerical, I’m more black and the white collar. So, you know, I miss the fashion sense. So I will, sometimes I’ll wear like a suit to some, like some events, but most of the time on church business I’ll wear the collar because it’s a good identifier, you know that, Remy, Right? It’s a good identifier who I am. I got to be careful where I wear it. You know, I wouldn’t wear it at a kid’s playground or I wouldn’t wear it, you know, at the park because obviously there are some negative connotations with that and we can, you know all about that and I’m sure your listeners do too. So you have to be wisdom where you present yourself, but in everything you do, including what you wear, you should be pointing to Jesus. Jesus. That’s another thing about pastors. I, I could rant about a billion different things and I probably. You probably think you want me to do that.
How you present yourself, it’s my job.
[00:29:28] Remy: Easy.
[00:29:28] Rev. Deberny: That’s right. How you present yourself is really, really important as a pastor.
If you have a ugly hairstyle or maybe, maybe a too attractive hairstyle when you’re up there preaching, what are they going to be focusing on? Maybe not quite the words, but you know, what your hair looks like, or if they, if you don’t take care of your hygiene or, you know, if, you know, it’s just you neglect your physical health. People notice that and it distracts from the message you’re supposed to give. I don’t want people to see me when I’m up there. One of my best professors at college once told me, peter, when I preach a sermon, I want to be invisible.
That’s pretty cool. I don’t want people to see me. I want people to see Jesus. So. And what I wear and how I conduct myself and how I talk, you know, do I have a, A rude mouth? That distracts. I want to point to Jesus in everything I do, for sure.
[00:30:24] Remy: Wow.
Yeah, that’s.
Yeah, that makes me feel ashamed.
I’m so bad at that.
I’m so bad at that. I pointed Jesus in like 30% of the things.
[00:30:43] Rev. Deberny: And thanks be to God, God by his mercy, he can use us through that 30% that we don’t need to be picture perfect pictures of health. And even through our mistakes, even when sometimes we can distract from the gospel, I don’t say everything perfectly sometimes. I really, really. I was, I was born with a sarcastic tendency and I, sometimes I like to do like the whole roll my eyes kind of like, oh, look at all these other Christians, blah, blah, blah. I get sarcastic and, and, and that’s not Christlike. And sometimes people hear it and it distracts and I have to pray for forgiveness. I’m a sinner too, just like you, Remy. And even in my imperfections, God can use me. Here’s the cool thing, Remy.
God doesn’t use perfect people to do his work.
How humbling it is that God uses imperfect sinners to do his work. And that’s where the power of the Holy Spirit comes from. It’s not us. Cause if it was us, we could see how, how much of a failure we would be. It’s all God.
[00:31:45] Remy: I, I like to often think about Paul.
And how Paul says he’s the chief of sinners. Okay. So Paul says, I’m. I’m the worst one. I. I’m the. I’m the worst sinner. And God still loves me, still saved me, can still use me, and I’m the worst, worst. And I like to remind myself that that’s in the Bible, which means it’s true. Which means that Paul’s the worst, which means I’m not. Right? So, like, if God can use Paul, God can use me.
[00:32:21] Rev. Deberny: Yes, I would. I would throw something out there. Now, this might be my take on that verse.
[00:32:25] Remy: Don’t destroy my hopes that I. I.
[00:32:28] Rev. Deberny: Would say that is it possible that he’s the worst sinner, sinner, and I’m also equally the worst sinner? That we are all the worst sinners.
[00:32:38] Remy: We are all the worst.
[00:32:39] Rev. Deberny: Yes.
[00:32:39] Remy: Yeah.
[00:32:40] Rev. Deberny: And that, you know, there is no hierarchy amongst sinners. I appreciate a sermon on this recently. I use the illustration, right, okay. You have a pencil thief, and you have a person who takes a gun to a store and robs it. Who’s the worst sinner?
Who. Who had the greater sin? And the answer is they are both equally sinful because they both have equally failed to keep God’s. And so there is no hierarchy amongst sinners, which should make us very humble, but should also once again, point us to Jesus and our need for him. No one should say, well, at least I’m not like that person.
Because we are.
[00:33:21] Remy: Yeah, we are. Yeah, it’s.
And it’s. It’s frightening, I think how easy it is to be like, oh, man, thank God I’m not that guy. But, like, you’re right. Like, we. We’re all that guy, you know, whether you want to be or not. I. I remember one time, Joe, my pastor, had me preach, and the lectionary text was the. The parable of the sewer. And, And I said, you know, which. Which seed do you think you are? You know, that Jesus sowed here? Which one do you think you are?
Are you the one that grew up on, you know, on with the. With the tears and got choked out? You probably are. Are you the one that grew up on the rocky ground and has no root and will wither? You probably are. Are you the seed that was thrown on the. On the path and the birds came and got it before it could even take root? Like, probably. That’s like, that’s the thing, man. It’s. It’s only by the grace of Jesus that you’re the good seed sown in the Good soil, you know, know, it’s. Don’t. Don’t think like, oh, man, I’m that good seed. You know, like, no, brother, you’re the seed on the path. You know, I’m the seed on the path. I need Jesus to put me in the good soil.
[00:34:38] Rev. Deberny: And that’s one of the cool things about our Lutheran theology. It’s all a gift every day of our lives. I like to teach in new member classes because it’s sometimes hard for us to understand the whole beauty of the gospel. And there are a lot of Christians who struggle with this. You know, we can talk about the sacraments being gifts, but we can go into that if you want. But let me stay on topic. Everything is a gift, including every time we say, I believe in Jesus.
Because Paul says, you cannot even confess that Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit. Right? It. It all. It’s all a gift. And this where our Baptist brothers kind of get a little confused. They like to go to Romans and say, confess with your heart that Jesus is Lord and you’ll be saved. See, you have to make a confession. It’s you. But then I’ll point right to First Corinthians and says, hey, you can’t even make that confession unless you have the Holy Spirit in you. So that confession of faith only comes from God, only comes from the Holy Spirit. Every good work you do is a gift of the Holy Spirit. As we hear that they are prepared for us in heaven, the Bible says before we even do them, we can’t stroke our own egos. And by the way, that kind of pulls me even more towards the Christian faith over others, because other religions out there, they really try to stroke your own ego, make you. You feel important, make you feel like you can do something, contribute something, that you are a meaningful part of the universe. What does the Christian. Christian faith do? You’re dead in your trespasses. Beg for forgiveness.
Yeah. And the beauty of the Gospel is we know that Jesus gives us that forgiveness even though we don’t deserve it.
[00:36:17] Remy: Yeah.
Do you. Being in New York, I feel like your probability is higher. Do you ever get mistaken as a Roman Catholic?
[00:36:26] Rev. Deberny: All the time. And it’s hilarious because you. I don’t know if this is just gonna be radio, if no one’s gonna see my face, but I look pretty young. I grew out the mustache and the longer hair. I look a little older, but a couple years ago, I looked probably like I was 17 years old doing hospital visits, wearing the collar. And so even though I looked so young, I would still have people go, hello, Father. How are you doing? And I would.
Instead of correcting them, you know what I do? I just lean in and say, I’m doing well, my child. How are you?
I always.
[00:37:00] Remy: So this is my own little sarcastic streak, you know, like, you know when people are like, hey, Mr. Daburna. And you’re like, Please, Mr. Du. Bernie is my father. I’m Peter, or whatever. You know what? I like that whole trope when someone says. When someone’s like, hello, Father, just be like, please, call me dad.
[00:37:14] Rev. Deberny: Yes.
Yeah, it’s funny to talk about that. Both my parents are Doctors, so it’s Dr. DeBurney and Dr. DeBurney. My brother is in med school, so he will be Dr. DeBurney. My sister’s a nurse, and I’m working on applying for my doctorate of ministry. So I won’t. You gotta get it, you know, so I don’t have to be the one not Dr. De Bernie in my family.
[00:37:40] Remy: That’s right. Could you imagine. Could you imagine letting all of the other Dr. De Bernie’s down?
[00:37:45] Rev. Deberny: That’s right. That’s right. Even my. Even my signature. If I sign contracts or something, it looks like a doctor’s signature because I just copied my. My dad’s style, which is like the half squiggle or something, because you don’t put enough effort in it. But no, it’s good. I had a. I had a very faithful family. I’m. I’m a success story of what it looks like to raise someone in the faith. You know, again, they. My parents were. Well, actually, my mom was LCMS growing up. My dad was like, assembly of God. He was Pentecostal.
[00:38:14] Remy: Oh, wow.
[00:38:14] Rev. Deberny: And so he married into the Lutherans, and he did the old Lutheran married and conversion switch in and. But one thing my dad got really right is he insisted our family goes to church every Sunday. We are going to church, and we’re going to raise our children in the church. And you are what you eat. I was exposed to church, and I was exposed to the fact that church is more important than sports, more important than theater. It is the most important thing. And I grew up with that foundation, and so here I am. And I would encourage any parents listening to this, right? You what you show your kids. That means something if you prioritize soccer over church. I can’t. I can’t force parents to come to church. I can’t. But if you really think that you want, no matter what, for them to believe, then we should take the steps to produce that fruit. Of course we can’t. We cannot control how our kids end up in the end. Right. But I think there is wisdom in how we raise our kids. Instead of just saying, hey, church is a once a month, a Christmas, Easter kind of thing. We. We prioritize it. Not again. I’m a success story of that, becoming a pastor. And you know, my. Both my siblings are Christian and I rejoice in that, you know. So again. But again, I give all the credit to the Holy Spirit. It’s been God working through me. And I.
Here’s another topic I talk about real quick.
It makes me humble.
It also fills me with a sense of duty because I know many people that weren’t blessed like I was growing up. Again, I had two doctors as parents, so I was well taken care of. I had faithful parents. I had both parents. I know many of my congregation that don’t have both parents. And I wouldn’t say I feel guilty about it, but I feel a sense of, okay, God has given me so much. It’s time to work for him.
I always quote the parable of the talents. You know this parable, right. Where the Master gives one person five or two, another one. And the focus of the parable is the. The one slothful servant who buries it in the ground. But you have to remember that the two that were given five and two, they made five and two more. To whom much is given, much is desired. And so I see of all the blessings I’ve been given, this is what motivates me each and every day, even through the hard times of being a pastor.
God has blessed you so much. Let me bless others with what God has given me and show that faith. And this is why I try to be patient with others, you know, patient with those that may not have had a chance to grow up in the faith like I did, patient with other who may not have had two parents or may have had not as bountiful, may have had struggle to put food on the table. I care for all these kinds of people. I want to be patient and loving to them and a reflection of Jesus, us. So that’s my.
You want to act me out in a play. That’s my motivation.
[00:41:19] Remy: So what.
What are some things I want to kind of circle back to your experience as a circuit visitor.
[00:41:28] Rev. Deberny: Yes.
[00:41:29] Remy: And the time you’ve been doing that, just sort of being a sole caregiver for soul caregivers. Right. And what are some things that congregants that. That the, that the laity that the parishioners can do to support their pastors? What do you like? What are. What are needs pastors have that the congregation can provide but often don’t think about?
[00:41:52] Rev. Deberny: Yeah, these are good questions. The first thing I would recommend is treat pastors like real people.
You know, be willing to let them go home and rest on a Sunday. If you can’t, if it’s emergency, it’s emergency. Right. But, you know, sometimes remember that, hey, pastor, you want to. Right after the service is done, you want to come and hang out with us for four more hours? You know, sometimes a pastor might feel pressured into that. Not to say you can’t offer them once in a while, but remember that we work sometimes six, seven days a week, and we need rest, too. Another thing I would say that I’ve learned as a circuit visitor is we also need to care for the pastor’s wives.
A pastor is not a pastor without his wife. And the two are one flesh, the Bible says. And so if the pastor’s wife is having a hard time, the pastor is probably having even a hard time, too. I like to say a lot of time, the hardest profession in the church is the pastor’s wife. Because at least the pastor gets all, like, the accolades. Oh, pastor, good sermon. Oh, pastor, thank you.
[00:43:03] Remy: It’s. It’s important, I think, especially for parishioners to realize too, that. And so I’m going through seminary now, and this is a conversation. I actually had this conversation literally earlier today with my own wife that there, there are people.
People go to her and like. So in my congregation, where I’m at now, I’m a. I’m just a guy, but I’m on the church council and, you know, I’m in seminary and they support me through that and all.
And a lot of times when they want to talk to me about something, when people in the church want to talk to me about something related to the business of the church, church, they talk to my wife.
And we were talking about this today. It’s because I feel like, I think that they don’t think they’re going to be able to really, like, talk to me about it, but they can definitely talk to her, and then she can talk to me about it. And we were talking about this exact thing that, like, when you get called as a pastor, when your pastor accepted the call to your church, his wife did not accept a call to your church.
[00:44:21] Rev. Deberny: Absolutely.
[00:44:21] Remy: His wife is not your pastor. Pastor. And if you have something that you need to talk to your pastor about, do not talk to your pastor’s. Wife, you know what I mean?
[00:44:32] Rev. Deberny: Like yeah, the word we use for that is triangulation. You are making a triangle. And, and absolutely your wife didn’t ask for that. And it’s, it’s, it’s a burden pastors bear on their shoulders. I mean the business of the church. But, but problems or drama, like a lot of time I don’t want to hear it, but it’s my job and so I will gladly receive it. But as you said, your wife didn’t ask for this kind of thing. So what I would tell a congregation is realize that you know, even though it may feel like oh, the pastor’s too busy or maybe it might be something confrontational, I don’t want to talk to him about it.
The pastor’s wife is not a person to go to. In fact, I recommend to some pastors, hey, I love when pastors wives are active in the church. That’s awesome. Part of the, you know, they lead the Bible, the, you know, the youth Bible study or they help with the music ministry or something. But don’t be ashamed for any, any wife to say, you know what, I’m gonna take a step back, I’ll come to church, I’ll bring the kids and then we’re gonna go have them go home and have lunch. Right? We’re just gonna have a health, healthy boundary there. And that’s one thing I would, I would recommend to congregations realize that there, there should be healthy boundaries because the idea that we are here to care for you, but it’s not quite the same thing as true friendship. Right. I wish it was not the case but that the relationship is a one way street. I just want to give to you. And you know, and again it varies by pastor for pastor. I know there’s some pastors out there would say, oh, that’s ridiculous. Pastor Deburning, my wife can, wants to be involved in everything and that’s awesome. But I know probably far more pastors wives who are burdened and exhausted, exhausted by the, the ministry because even though they didn’t sign up for it. And so I think it’s helpful to just keep that in mind when we want to care for pastors and their wives and you know, give them a meal once in a while and not, not like a meal like hey, let’s go out to eat pastor, drop off a dinner at their house, right? Let them, you know, drop off a pizza and just say enjoy this pastor and whoever, whatever his wife’s name is. I don’t want to pressure you, but Just, Just relax with each other. Be a human being just for a little bit. It’s not often we get.
But that’s what I would recommend. I think it’s important for us all to remember for sure.
[00:46:58] Remy: What, what it advice would you have for people for young men who are thinking about going. You mentioned this. You know, the LCMS needs pastors. You have young men out there maybe listening to this and thinking, maybe I could do that. That. What. What would you tell them?
[00:47:19] Rev. Deberny: Oh, man. You know, you’re gonna let me go on this. I’m so excited.
[00:47:23] Remy: Yeah, go ahead.
[00:47:25] Rev. Deberny: There is no greater vocation on this, on this planet. This is the office of the holy ministry.
I love when I go to hospitals and there’s a person there I’m visiting who has no family left.
And I come and I’m a reflection of Jesus, Jesus to this person. I’ve had people in hospitals weep in front of me because there is someone who has remembered them, who cares about them. And I’m not just some social worker. I bring Jesus body and blood to them.
I bring Jesus to them. I bring true hope.
Will you have someone like that when you’re on your deathbed? Will you be all alone? I ask that myself all the time. And I don’t want that for myself, so I don’t want that for others either. And the. The church needs pastors that are capable. You know, I was a software developer before I became a pastor, right. I was good with computers and tech and all kind of stuff. And certainly I could be making more money working in California.
Yeah, but the church has need.
[00:48:36] Remy: That’s right.
[00:48:37] Rev. Deberny: I have found men really want to be need needed.
That’s why I think it’s so. It was for me. It was. Why do I want to become a pastor? Because I see a need for other pastors. I see a need for dynamic preachers. For preachers of the truth, by the way, not just dynamic preachers, because Joel seems a dynamic preacher. Preachers of the truth.
And so I felt that need when it comes to the divine call.
I mentioned when I was seven years old, I felt the pull to become a pastor. Not everyone has that experience. But if you find yourself over and over thinking about this, you know, the church needs pastors. What about me? Ah, maybe not. Okay. And then. And then a week goes by and. And you see, oh, there’s no one to fill the vacancy of my church. The church needs pastors. And you think about that again like, ah, nah, probably not me. And then it happens over and over and over. Maybe this is the divine call. I like to think about the story of Samuel and Eli. Do you remember this? When Samuel was a wee little kid living with Eli. And then God calls Samuel and Samuel wakes up and says, oh, Eli called me. So he runs to see Eli and he was like, that didn’t call you go back to sleep. And again it happens. God calls Samuel and he goes, Eli. And over and over and over until Eli realizes it’s God calling him. Say to God, speak for your servant hears. And again God called and Samuel said, speak for your servant hears. The divine call for pastors, I find is just like, like that. It’s not just a one off thought, but it comes over and over and over again. And I would, and I would tell young people, considering maybe this is, maybe this is one call right now you’re hearing, listening to this interview, God’s calling you right here, that there is no greater vocation on the planet to deliver God’s grace, God’s love to people, people that so desperately need to hear it. I don’t think I can remember. My life’s not that long, but I don’t think I can remember a time where God’s gospel has been more near needed than now. You look at our schools, public schools, completely stripped of religion, right? Religion’s. Religion’s gone. Which, you know, ironic. It says, you can do whatever religion you want, but we’re not going to teach anything in school. And what, Guess what happened?
Suicide rates in our kids skyrocketed. Anxiety, depression, skyrocketed. Our kids, our young adults are begging for hope, begging for truth. I have people come, strangers, you know, maybe a relative related to one of the members. They’re looking for a baptism and they come into my office and they don’t even know why they’re Christian.
The simple answer, like, you know, the resurrection.
They tell me being a Christian is about being a good person. It’s, it’s about, you know, being a righteous person and being a decent, decent, decent folk. No, being a Christian is about, hey, when I die, I’m going to get my body back one day and there’s nothing more important than that.
[00:51:35] Remy: That’s right.
[00:51:36] Rev. Deberny: The need for this teaching is, it’s just present everywhere because no longer can we just assume that, you know, school’s gonna teach about Jesus. People are just, you can’t just assume people know about Jesus anymore. It’s fascinating. This idea that religion is commonplace in our world is gone. And so the need is great. And so we need pastors willing to meet that need. And I tell you, there’s nothing more important.
Now, that’s like the big overview.
I also want to tell you, like, more logistic kind of things, if you’re interested. You know what it means to be a pastor. At least let me talk from an LCMS point of view. First of all, as of now, there’s probably not a better time to be a pastor because the demand for you is so high you’re not going to have a hard time finding a church. And I know from experience when I was at seminary, they made sure that the church I was sent to could pay me. Right? You know about churches that just can’t pay pastors. And so I know a lot of people who are scared of the ministry because they’re afraid that I’m not going to be able to support my family. So the LCMS does a really good job of finding congregations that will be able to support new pastors. And for the churches that can’t, that’s where people like circuit visitors come in and vacancy pastors come in and retired pastors come in. So I, as a pastor have never felt like I was being ripped off, off or that I, I couldn’t care for myself or I was being taken advantage of. And, and this is what the district presidents are there for, to make sure pastors are cared for. It is a lot of work. It’s a lot of time, a lot of energy to come. Pastor Remy, you said you were, you were. I don’t know. If you’re in seminary, you’re going to seminary, to education, you’re in seminary. It’s a lot of work. I don’t know if the aalc, they do Greek and Hebrew there, but learning Greek and Hebrew can, can be challenging. But, you know, I’m not the smartest person in the world and I was able to do it right. You know, it just, it’s just, it’s just effort. It’s just time. And if you believe this, if you believe it’s worth it to be a pastor, if you believe the need, you’ll do whatever it takes. And I found that during four years of education, it was a lot of hurdles, but I came out feeling prepared. I didn’t feel like it was going to be overwhelming for me. And I know I’ve got people in my, in my court, on my team. This goes back to the beginning of our conversation, right, that you don’t want pastors to be alone. How about new pastors being alone? Absolutely not. New called pastors there to be supported. It’s why our circuits are so important. I mean, I remember my circuit visitor called me up, like, week one of my call. How you doing? Need help with anything? Where can I help? We’re meeting this time. We want to get to know you. I was swallowed up immediately. And so, you know, as challenges come, as a pastor, I didn’t feel alone, though.
[00:54:25] Remy: The.
[00:54:25] Rev. Deberny: The. Yeah, the difficulty is when pastors purposely take themselves away from others. But absolutely, I felt people welcoming in when I first became a pastor. Sorry, that was a long rant, but that’s. That’s my perspective. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.
[00:54:45] Remy: Give me just a second.
[00:54:46] Rev. Deberny: No, Remy might cut this out, but little dead air, little family interruption, which is good, actually, by the way. I don’t know if we’ll cut this out, but I love family interruptions in church, in the service.
I love little kids running around during the service. And I know some people, they’re like, oh, they should be behaved. They should sit in their seats. And little kids in the church means that the church has a few future. And Jesus said, let the little children come to me. And so sometimes I have kids belting out screaming during the sermon. Oh, I couldn’t hear you, Pastor. Don’t worry. I record the sermon, and the microphone is right by my mouth. So if you couldn’t hear something, you listen it to it again, and you’ll get it there. And, you know, we get. We get children’s messages with, like, 20 kids coming up, and. And people feel encouraged. They say, wow, this is. We. We want to be the church for families. Families. If we refuse to be, then our church will die out. And. And so again, I. I never embarrass parents who have kids that cry out or.
Because it’s very embarrassing for parents sometimes with kids that when their kids start acting up, oh, I’m not. I’m not welcome here. I don’t belong. It’s the last thing I want for parents to think for sure.
[00:56:08] Remy: It’s. It’s so wonderful. Our little church in North Carolina here, where I’m at, we.
We get a lot of kids. Yes, a lot of kids. And it’s so great how, like, there will be a young kid, like a toddler, who will drop a toy or something, a crayon or whatever, and it’ll roll, like, down the middle aisle and, like, onto the other side. So it’s like three pews down and on the other side of the. The aisle, and this little toddler will get up and just run down, and there is an adult there with, like, a Fresh coloring sheet and more crayons just ready to, you can sit with me for a little while. And it’s so, it’s so beautiful to watch, man. There, there are kids in our church that will sit with anyone, like anyone on a Sunday.
And no one minds, no one minds that there’s that, that, that, you know, David is going to sit with us today, you know, and we, you know, even my wife and I will have, you know, they’ll just be random, random kids that aren’t our kids that are just like, hey, you know, Ms. Samantha, can I sit with you and Remy today? And it’s like, sure, yeah, whatever. And it’s so sweet to watch how like the whole church, like is a family, works together. Yeah, yeah.
[00:57:35] Rev. Deberny: This is what people want out of church. Now, of course, the truth, the gospel is the most important thing. But you are a stranger coming into a church for the first time and you see a family.
[00:57:48] Remy: Yeah.
[00:57:49] Rev. Deberny: This is what the stereotype is about the church. If you’re an atheist, you’re outside the church. So the church is a divided bunch of people, a bunch of hypocrites that don’t care about me, that don’t love me. But what you just described, Remy, which is a beautiful picture, almost made me start tearing up a little bit, right, that, wow, this is a place I could bring my kids that would love on us, care for us. A home away from home is what the church should be. And that’s how churches explode. Now.
Numbers aren’t that important. I know some people get really obsessed about the numbers of the church, growing the church, church growth movement. I think the quality of love in the church is more important than the number for sure.
[00:58:25] Remy: Absolutely.
[00:58:26] Rev. Deberny: And, and, but there it is, right, that, that your church feels like a family. And that’s what the early church was like. Remember the early church, it was a bunch of people in a. Someone rich person’s house, maybe 10 people. And they had a copy of Paul’s letter that was just newly copied for them and they read it out loud and then they had the Lord’s supper and then maybe the overseer or whatever they want to call it, the bishop came and said, hey, who, whose kids we need to baptize this week? Right. And he would make rounds from church to church to church. Church and the church was a family together, sticking together. Literally in the midd midst of persecution, literally in the midst of complete denial. Our world is getting close to that, by the way, where people do not put Christians on a pedestal anymore. Religion is not important. And so we need to stick together more than any other time. And if you want new people coming into the church, they need to see that this is a place where there’s love, there’s family, and there’s hope. So I love to hear that, Remy. That was a great thing.
[00:59:28] Remy: It’s also why it’s so important for parishioners, like when.
When new people show up. Go. Go out of your way.
[00:59:38] Rev. Deberny: Yes.
[00:59:39] Remy: Go out of your way.
[00:59:40] Rev. Deberny: Yes.
[00:59:40] Remy: You know, I. I want. I want. And I keep trying to. I can’t get the council to go for it, but I want to do host families. Okay. Because especially. And you’ll maybe. Well, maybe not in New York. York, but where I’m at in the south, it’s big box Baptist churches everywhere.
[00:59:58] Rev. Deberny: Oh, yes.
[00:59:59] Remy: And Lutheran worship is not.
[01:00:02] Rev. Deberny: Yes.
[01:00:02] Remy: It’s not a thing. And so what I want are, like, different families to sign up to be host families. And when a visitor comes in, an usher will greet the visitor. Hey, how you doing? Have you ever been to a Lutheran church before? A lot of people have. When they show up to us because they’re military and they’re coming, they’re looking for something from back. Back home. Right. But a lot of people haven’t, they just walk in off the street. No, I’m looking for a new church. I saw this one. I figured I’d try it. And when you run across someone that’s never been to a Lutheran church before, and they’re from the south and they’re used to a Baptist church to say, well, great, come with me. This is the Jones family. Please sit with them. And they’ll guide you through the liturgy. They’ll help you with it. You know, if you have any questions at any point in time during the service, you can ask, and they’re here to answer. And like, I, you know, I. I think it’s a good idea.
And it, you know, it takes the.
The pressure off, you know, I. So I’m a Lutheran. I’m halfway through seminary.
I’ve been a Lutheran for six or seven years now, and I still get confused when I leave my little AALC church and go to an LCMS church and they’re using a different worship setting than the one I’m used to.
[01:01:25] Rev. Deberny: Yes. You know what I mean?
[01:01:26] Remy: And I know what I’m doing.
[01:01:28] Rev. Deberny: Yes, that’s right. That’s right. So imagine if you’re not not just brand new to Lutheranism, but brand new to the church. And one thing I. One thing I think we take for granted all the time. Is, you know, we can sing heaven hymns. A lot of people, hymns are like what I. I’ve never heard of liturgical settings for music. I. I don’t know how to read this. In fact, I sometimes say for granted, some people don’t even know how to read sheet music. I learned. I had a. I had a music class when I was six years old. I learned the piano again. It’s one of the one I go back to. I’ve been blessed so much, and sometimes I take for that for granted that other people have not that had that advantage. And you’ll see a lot of people, people don’t open their mouth when music comes. They don’t sing because they. They don’t know how. And so being around other people who are singing, maybe they might open their mouths just a little bit and follow along. In fact, this is kind of a cool thing.
One thing I learned the seminary, and I’ll share with you a lot of the time, the way Christians learn, Lutherans learn things like the liturgy, things like what we believe. It’s actually not really through a new member class, which is important. We should have those. We should have specific teaching. I just had a new member class yesterday. A lot of the time it’s just by being in worship. I had someone come in about a year and a half ago. You know, he was having a tough time, and he came for counseling, and, you know, slowly but surely he warmed up to me. And then he started coming to worship. And I could tell, you know, he didn’t really have much of a church background. And so, you know, we would do things like the Nicene Creed, and he would just kind of stand there and be like, I don’t know what going on. Then he would come for a few months, month after month. And then all of a sudden I noticed he was saying the Nicene Creed with us. And now it’s been a year and a half, and he’s boldly saying the Nicene Creed with us. Right? And he may not have had that whole new member class to walk through every single article of the Creed, and yet he is boldly confessing the faith of our church. That’s how many people learn. And as you were saying, Remy, maybe we should have. Have people next to you in the pew to walk you through it and even just to do it with you. Our worship is done more often than it’s taught. And I. I think this is how a lot of the time the early church got started. You know, we. Again, there’s a house church, and someone walks in doesn’t know what’s going on, and. But I’m friends with this one guy, and so I’ll be a part of this. And I see all this. This, the Holy Spirit working, and I slowly am learning just by seeing the worship happen. And then I become part of. Part of the church. So, Remy, I think it’s a great idea having a. Even a committee of, hey, make sure no one sits alone. And sometimes as a pastor, I have a little bit, you know, I sometimes flex my authority a little bit, and I’ll say to a family, hey, that one woman sits by herself, could you sit by them next week?
I point out someone, and they delight in doing that. Sometimes people just need to be. If you don’t ask, sometimes it doesn’t happen. So sometimes just asking is a very powerful tool, too. But. Yeah, absolutely right. Me, I’m all on board with what you’re saying.
[01:04:37] Remy: Pastor. I know we’re getting close to your. Your cutoff time. I know you have an obligation. So I just want to thank you for taking the time to sit with me today. This was such a joy.
It was so great having you here. Any. Any parting thoughts? Anything you would like to leave us with?
[01:04:56] Rev. Deberny: I always delight in talking to other Lutherans, meeting other Lutherans. I was just at the seminary yesterday or two days ago for a symposium, theological symposium. So a lot of pastors gathering together from all over the country. I love to see, you know, the fact that not only are we united in the way we do worship, but more importantly, the way what we believe. But I love to see, also see little quirks of different congregations. The fact that I was called a Yankee in North Carolina, I love that. I think that’s awesome because I see the. The personality and I see the. The joy of different congregations. And it’s so inspiring that we really are confessional together. We are together. You know, I come from New York and, you know, I’ve got people in my congregation. I got Pakistani families, I got African American families coming to worship with us together.
It’s just awesome to see all the different cultures come together, united in Christ. And it’s a pleasure, Remy, to talk to people like you that are also so bold and in your faith. And I hope this inspired someone who was listening. And again, anytime you want to have me again, I’d love to talk, love to share any of my.
My young insights. Again, only 27, but by. By the Holy Spirit, I’m speaking to you right now, but it was my pleasure. Thank you, Remy.
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